Talk:Þýskar Grundar
Ich würde gern für diese Seite eine deutsche Übersetzung verfassen, aber leider gibt es auch hier nicht so viele Infos. :'( Könntest du die Geschichte/Politik/Geographie usw. kurz skizzieren? Oder darf ich sogar ein paar Details selbst erfinden? --Semyon 17:40, September 27, 2017 (UTC) :Þýskar Grundar along with Miðlandssvæði are located on the Skaftá (the main river). In the beginning, this area was settled by Germans as well as Icelanders. The German settlement caused all the Icelandic people who settled in this region, and further to the south, to become Roman-Catholic, while the northern part of the island remained mainly Lutheran. Due to the high amount of immigration of Icelanders, most "young" communities further stream upwards become islandophone (:o). When the provinces were formed in 1862, it was decided that the communities with a German majority be innugeysk, while the Icelandic majority communities be skaftgeysk. To keep the border simple, Thull-og-Vatnahringur was traded for Hróðshlíð. Therefore, Miðland was split into two parts; the capital Vegar was mainly Icelandic due to assimilation and immigration. :In 1900, Akranes which had become germanified was sold to Innugey and Þýskar Grundar was given to Skaftgey in return, as there was a sizable Icelandic minority there anyway. Since then, more Icelandic settlers came to live here, pushing the percentage of German ethnic people to less than 40% nowadays, with the German language itself being mainly used by the older generation and for sentimental/cultural reasons. Possibly, some Akranes-Icelanders moved to ÞG, while ÞG-Germans moved to Akranes :o :Geographically, it is a tundra-like lakey relatively flat area, though still suitable to agriculture. Municipalities like Hróðshlíð and Rósuþorp are hillier with rather steep hlíðs, and generally forested. :Politically, no idea. There is no German minority party, mayhaps cuz they too small to be represented, or maybe just because their traditions are relatively safe in their own svæði. :So yeah. That was the basic outline I had stored in my head :o --OuWTB 17:56, September 27, 2017 (UTC) ::Danke schön. --Semyon 19:35, September 27, 2017 (UTC) :::Ekkert vandamál. --OuWTB 19:48, September 27, 2017 (UTC) So... you planning on starting the german page soon? :o --OuWTB 17:44, September 28, 2017 (UTC) Let's agree to disagree on the percentage of German speakers. You said 40%; I say 25%. So the same will work for Akranes, but then reversed: you say 10%, I say 25% :o --OuWTB 16:24, October 2, 2017 (UTC) :Your numbers are also fine by me. --Semyon 17:25, October 2, 2017 (UTC) ::Nei, það eru þau ekki :'( --OuWTB 08:13, October 3, 2017 (UTC) :::It makes sense though that the percentage of Icelandic speakers in Akranes is lower than the percentage of German speakers in ÞG. Akranes is more urbanized (more like a suburb of Innumuður), has probably less self-determination than ÞG, and it is very likely that it had a lower population. I can a scenarion though in which Skaftgey, which is currently ruled by a nationalistic party, thinks the percentages are higher and the Icelandic minority there is oppressed :o --OuWTB 08:32, October 3, 2017 (UTC) ::::I can also imagine that scenario. :P Ackerness does not have any special autonomy, so it might even be justified. When I wrote 40% I didn't mean it was 40% native speakers, but including those who learnt it as a second language in school or elsewhere - reflecting its perceived cultural value to the population. Native speakers might well be 25% or even lower. --Semyon 09:26, October 3, 2017 (UTC) ::::: :o Actually, I can image a large part of the Skaftgoese population to be at least somewhat proficient in German, but of course that is officially denied :P --OuWTB 09:32, October 3, 2017 (UTC) :::::: :P We don't have to make them hate each other. I know hatred is a key component in creating the history of any wikination, but they can be united in hatred of KIM instead. --Semyon 09:41, October 3, 2017 (UTC) :::::::We need some tension though :P --OuWTB 10:03, October 3, 2017 (UTC) Laut Wiktionary der Plural von 'grund' ist 'grundir' und nicht 'grundar'. Stimmt das? Oder sind mir gewisse Komplexitäten der isländischen Grammatik entgangen? --Semyon 09:51, October 3, 2017 (UTC) :Stimmt, aber "Grund" ist männlich in Deutsch. "grundar" ist die regelmäßige Plural für einen männlichen Form :o --OuWTB 10:03, October 3, 2017 (UTC) Erklär "Oder sind mir gewisse Komplexitäten". —TimeMaster (talk • ) 00:11, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :You need the entire sentence: Oder sind mir gewisse Komplexitäten der isländischen Grammatik entgangen? '' Literally: Or are me certain complexities of-the Icelandic grammar slipped? Translation: Have I looked over certain complexities of the Icelandic grammar? :o --OuWTB 07:15, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::To be more precise, the translation would be "overlooked", not "looked over". Those two phrases have nearly opposite meanings in this context. :o 77topaz (talk) 08:01, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::You patronizing me? :'( --OuWTB 08:15, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::No; TM wanted to know what something meant, so I helped with making the explanatory translation as accurate as possible. 77topaz (talk) 09:06, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::: :o So you saying my translations not accurate? :o --OuWTB 09:12, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::::Your translation was mostly accurate, but the "looked over" bit was not. 77topaz (talk) 10:23, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::::::If we're going to be ''really pernickety, the article before 'Icelandic grammar' should also be removed. --Semyon 10:53, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::::::: :o Maybe this just indicates how takavíhki English is :P --OuWTB 11:58, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::: Yes, it does, and many other things as well. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 12:29, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::Icelandic cute though :3 --OuWTB 12:39, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::::English is eek soot thaugh. :3 --Semyon 13:09, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::::That sounds Scots though :o --OuWTB 13:16, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::::::It's Middle English. So you're not wrong. --Semyon 13:21, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::::::: :o Scots f*cking cute though :3 --OuWTB 13:24, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::::::: Scots is just a conservative dialect of English though. :o --Semyon 13:41, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :o :o :o ::::::::::::::::Bit like Icelandic with Norse and Limburgish with Dutch though, and that makes them cutely cute :o --OuWTB 13:56, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::Scots is a separate language. It's sort of like the distinction between Finnish and Estonian. MyOwnBadSelf (talk · ) 02:04, October 5, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I agree with your classification of Scots as a separate language, but I'm sure your exaggerating a bit. The differences in the core of grammar between Estonian and Finnish are actually substantial; on top of that, Estonian has more influence from Swedish and Russian in its vocabulary. Scots vocabulary is largely based on (Old)/Middle English with a new layer almost entirely based on Modern English. Scots and English are best compared as Dutch and Dutch Low Saxon. --OuWTB 09:22, October 5, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::There is no clear criterion for distinguishing between a language and a dialect, so I don't find dogmatic pronouncements either way very useful - but to me it's irrelevant that some linguist in his ivory tower decides Scots is a language, when there is no consciousness that it is among its speakers. In any case, it's just a political game played by the current nationalist government. --Semyon 12:25, October 5, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::Agreed, it's all politics. --OuWTB 12:38, October 5, 2017 (UTC) @TM: are you aware that certain verbs use 'sein' as an auxiliary rather than 'haben' to form the perfect? That is the reason 'sind' is used here. --Semyon 13:06, October 4, 2017 (UTC) Let's revive both Old and Middle English. Yes, but I don't know which ones they are. :P Why is "oder" there? Why is dative mir used and not ich for nominative? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 22:31, October 4, 2017 (UTC) :'Oder' fulfils the same role here that 'or' would in English. 'Entgehen' takes a dative object in this case, it means something like 'elude' - 'the complexities elude me.' --Semyon 22:52, October 4, 2017 (UTC) ::Indeed. "entgehen" is not a copula, so the sentence can't take nominative twice; as "gewisse Kompl ... Grammatik" is the subject, and thus "gewisse Komplexitäten" takes nominative, "mir" has to take another case, which be dative in this case as it is an "appears to me"-construction (simply said, to = dative) --OuWTB 09:25, October 5, 2017 (UTC) Why do copulas take the nominative twice and take negative directly after themselves instead of later? Do any other German verbs take nicht immediately after? Would an accusative have any sense if used with that verb? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 19:55, October 5, 2017 (UTC) :@copula: most transitive verbs involve a subject performing an action (nominative) and an object which suffers the action (accusative). This is not the case with a copula, which merely indicates identity between two subjects. @nicht: I'm not aware that copulas behave differently to other German verbs in this regard. @accusative: I believe it would simply be incorrect. --Semyon 20:14, October 5, 2017 (UTC) ::Why. It is because nicht will always go before an adjective but with nouns you use kein instead? —TimeMaster (talk • ) 21:43, October 5, 2017 (UTC) :::@accusative: no. "entgehen" is a monotransitive verb, not a ditransitive verb, as such it can only take one object, which - due to its meaning - can only be dative in this case. However, it is possible in Dutch/Limburgish in sentences like "Ich óntgaon dich". In this case, the meaning is literally "to escape", which contrasts with the other meaning as indicative above, which takes dative "Dir óntgaon ich" (although in spoken language, wrong forms like "Dir óntgeit mich" actually occur :o). Whether this also exists in German, I doubt it. --OuWTB 08:34, October 6, 2017 (UTC)